I Received this letter from Bob who wanted to let me know that his information about some of the Information that Bob Dean is quoting is Disinformation. (yeah, you read it right) So, In an effort to present all sides of the issue of UFO Folklore I will present Bob's comments then you can read Robert Dean's Assesment and Decide for yourselves. You can contact Bob thru me if you wish to say something to him.

Ok this is from Bob (Not Robert Dean)
Dan: FYI Be careful who you quote because part of what Robert Dean is saying is false; ie Kingman AZ 1972 never happened ! It was planted disinfo by our Gov agents like Aztec NM was ! I know certain Gov agents and they get BIG BUCKS for dispensing disinformation: They have told me that the Kingman AZ and Aztec NM UFO cases were planted by Gov Agents to mislead the public. Regards
Bob C

And Now Robert Dean's Story !

The following interview was conducted by Bruce Anderson 8/11/95 for UFO Update AZ, a quarterly UFO magazine published in Arizona. This article was published in UFO Update AZAEs Winter 95-96 issue. To subscribe to UFO Update AZ, write to:UFO Update AZ, 12629 N. Tatum, Suite 109, Phoenix AZ 85032 The cost is $8.95 for one year quarterly subscription, enjoy.

An Interview with Retired Sergeant-Major Robert Dean

Update: Thanks Bob for joining me in this interview. I want to ask you some questions, interview of sorts, for UFO Update AZ. The first question is when did you first get interested in UFOs.

Bob: Well we're going back a few years here. I really became curious in the 50's, even in the late 40's. I was a student at the University of Indiana when all of this began, the big flaps began around at 1947. Kenneth Arnold, the rumors and the fly-overs, I was curious, but I was skeptical. It was a passing interest I would say. I really didn't get deeply involved in this thing until 1963 when I was assigned SHAPE [Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe] Headquarters in Paris, France. I was a professional soldier, as you probably know- most of my adult life, and most of those were in special operations, special assignments here and there. Over the years IAEve had assignments, I led combat troops in Korea 1951, I led intelligence operations patrols in South Vietnam 1970. I've had a long history of interesting, special, unusual assignments and as a result of my

training and background -I had been given a TOP SECRET classification many, many years ago. But when I was assigned to SHAPE Headquarters in Paris in 1963, I was given an upgrade from a TOP SECRET to COSMIC TOP SECRET, and I had to have that in order to work in the operations division in a place we call SHOC, the Supreme Headquarters Operations Center, which is the war room actually, the NATO war room and I had my clearance upgraded to COSMIC TOP SECRET, (which by the way is a real legitimate classification), it's the highest NATO has. Now in the United States we have classifications that are at least 40 levels above TOP SECRET. The whole field is so compartmentalized, there are people who have TOP SECRET clearances that do not have access to certain kinds of information. The thing is broken down according to the subject, and your need to know. In military operations in every service, this security thing has become a nightmare over the years. We created it ourselves. We did it during W.W.II and during the Cold War years. You can have the highest level of classification in one particular area, and that will not allow you access to information in another area. ItAEs the compartmentalization aspect of it. For example there are four-- star generals who do not know a damn thing about the UFO phenomena, they really donAEt know... First of all they have never been told. Secondly they have not had access to the information, because under the security system it may have been determined that they didn't have a need to know. I could talk to you about the security problems in this country for hours, because it is one of my biggest complaints. We created a nightmare for ourselves, literally, during the Cold War years. We let it get out of hand. Bobby Ray Inman, as a matter of fact who is a retired admiral, has said repeatedly-- he used to be

the director of the Central Intelligence Agency-- he was the deputy director of the National Security Agency, a four--star admiral, one of our top security people- he said that upon retirement weAEve got a bunch of people over there that are running loose, out of control. He was referring to Langley and Fort Meade. These two locations where CIA and NSA are located. So there are people who know that we've got ourselves a real problem. I have a tendency to ramble a bit, so you'll have to get me back on the subject. The reason I am wandering on this subject is that it's a matter of great importance to me, because the security systems that we have created over the years are literally trashing our constitutional system. The United States' Constitution is literally being trashed and flushed down the toilet by top bureaucrats in the intelligence agencies, guys in the Department of Defense who are totally violating the constitutional process are making national policy on this particular issue that we are discussing this afternoon. They do not have oversight. The oversight should be either the legislative or the executive branches of the government. They are up to their ears in the black budget program, that you have probably heard about, which has reached about $50 billion a year right now, and the black budget systems themselves are a violation of the Constitution. The fact that they could spend $50 billion dollars of your money every year, of the peoples money, and not have to go to Congress and account for it, or explain where it is going.

Update: As a result of your COSMIC TOP SECRET clearance, you came across a document at NATO....

Bob: I arrived at SHAPE Headquarters in 1963, the Supreme Headquarters for Allied Powers in Europe, which is the military arm of NATO, which was located in a little town of Rouquencourt, right outside of Paris. I arrived in 1963 and began working in the war room, had my security clearance upgraded to COSMIC TOP SECRET, so I had access to the war room. I had heard rumors and gossip. When I arrived in 1963 I had learned of the study that was initiated in 1961, the subject was UFOs. Many of us talked about rumors, gossip, one thing or another, and I was curious, because here we are in one of the top military headquarters in the world and I learned that they had initiated a study in 1961, because we and the Soviets and the Warsaw Pact people, had almost gone to war with each other a few times, several times actually, over the UFO matter. Because,

these large circular metallic objects were flying over Europe, coming out of the Soviet zone, over the Warsaw Pact. They would fly in formation at a high altitude, at a high rate of speed and they would fly obviously under intelligent control, and for awhile the Soviets thought they'd belonged to us and for a time we thought they belonged to the Soviets. Whenever they would show up over Europe, and demonstrated their capability, this high tech that they had, obviously intelligently controlled, the Soviets got all wound up and uptight, they'd go on alert, we'd go on alert, they'd close the Berlin gates and one thing or another, it happened time and time again. It is important to remember, in those years, they we are facing each other, across a divided Europe, literally-our fingers on the trigger, thumbs poised above the red buttons and World War III was just moments away. The last damn thing we needed, in those years, was some kind of unknown unexpected ingredient being thrown into the pot, and that's what this matter became. In 1961 an event occurred in early February, in the wee hours of the morning, I believe it was the second of February in 1961, where we almost went to war, and when this thing was over, and it was over in about 25 minutes or so, because they never lasted very long, these things would appear, they'd fly over Europe and get everyone all upset and

excited and they would turn north over the channel, over and disappear off of NATO's radar over the Norwegian Sea. It was almost a standard pattern. Well, in February of 1961. Air Marshall Sir Thomas Pike who was the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, the Deputy SACEUR, as we called him. He was a highly decorated British Air Marshal, he was the deputy to my boss, General Lyman Lamnitzer, Lamnitzer was SACEUR. Pike said we've got to do something about this, I learned later, and he said we can't let this continue, we're going to have to find out what the hell is happening. WeAEre getting no help from London or Washington on the subject, which is another story, because in those days there was an enormous French spy ring operating outside of Paris, involving ministers, generals, admirals, and you could read all about it in Leon Uris' excellent book entitled "Topaz," as a matter of fact, Topaz was made into a movie, that was well done. Any how, weAEd get nothing from London or Washington because of the nature of the subject, because anything they would give us would go to Moscow and the KGB, in many cases before we got it in SHAPE. On this subject, which I learned later, was the most highly sensitive subject in all of our modern military history. All over the world, all over the US, all over Europe, nothing was forthcoming from either Washington or London on this subject. So, Pike initiated an in-house study in 1961, after this event in February to determine what the hell was happening. They called it an "assessment", but they gave it a subtitle Of A Possible Military Threat To The Allied Forces In Europeoe. It was a military study with a military purpose, with no other purpose at all, other than to determine if there was a military threat here. It was not a broad based vast in-depth analysis, it was simply a determination of what was happening, and do we have to be involved.

Are we threatened in some way? I think that is important to understand. The study was three years in it's completion from 1961 to 1964. When they published it in 1964, and I was still there working in the war room. They published it in 15 copies, COSMIC TOP SECRET. Copy one went to the Secretary General of NATO, who funded the thing, copy two went to General Lamnitzer (my boss), and copy three was placed in the vault in the war room. When it was published in 1964- I worked in there sometimes into the wee hours of the morning- when you're bored and as I said jokingly the coffee's too black to drink, sometimes you pull things out of the vault and you read them. And one morning it happened to me, this Air Force controller, a Bird Colonel, who was in charge of the shift that morning, and pulled this thing out of the vault and he said here read this, this will wake you up.

Well, I've often thought I'd like to track that Colonel down, cause it didn't only wake me up, but changed my life. At the time I was a Master Sergeant working in the war room. I was kinda sassy, I thought I was pretty tough, I had a crew cut, I was a no-nonsense soldier. I had some good assignments and I was in a choice field. I was getting top assignments because of my classification level. This document, in 1964, literally, shook the shit out of me, and I have never been the same since. It is important that I explain this to you, because this was not a game to me, I was interested, curious, skeptical but nothing much more than that. When I saw this thing in 1964, read it, read it repeatedly, studied it, pulled the annexes out, looked at all the annexes, look at the photographs, the autopsy reports, the detailed analysis of experts all over Europe, it dawned on me that, Jesus, this is not only real, but this is more than real, this is not a joke, this is not science fiction, this isn't fantasy. Then the implications of it began to hit me, when I began to realize it wasn't simply a matter of hardware, extraterrestrial visitation, because you can get beyond that; that becomes a reality, this is not that difficult to handle. As a student of astronomy years ago when I was at the University, I never dreamed for a moment that we were alone. I knew, I just kinda assumed that the universe is literally teeming with intelligent life. I think anybody that had any other kind of an idea was out of their minds. The idea that we are all alone out here, we are all there is, I thought this can't possibly be. But to have it laid in front of you as a reality with the impact of it day after day, after day-- the study the conclusion-- it makes an impact that you never quite ever get away from . I am one of those people who do not know how you can walk into this with an open mind, study the evidence thatAEs available and ever turn your back on it and leave it alone. I don't know how people can do that.

Update: You mentioned autopsy reports.....

Bob: In the study there were autopsy reports. There had been a crash of a large 30--meter disk in Northern Germany, just about and mile and a half from the Baltic Sea in a little town called Timmensdorfer-strand. It was the early 1960s, 1963, late 60s or early 64. This 30--meter disk crashed, never did know why, what caused it to crash, but it went into Timmensdorfer-strand near the Baltic, and when the British Army Engineer Battalion which got there, this happened in the British zone of occupation. As you know Germany was divided up among the British, French and Americans in those years, a carry over from the cold wars and occupation. When the British army got into this thing they found twelve small bodies. And when I say small bodies, I'm talking about little dudes, not human, humanoid, but not human. Three--and--a--half to four feet tall and sometimes a little more. But what was so interesting is that in the autopsy report, the British medical examiner remarked, and I'm sure that this thing was recorded and transcribed, because it was conversations that they were having as they conducted the autopsy, their exclamations, remarks like "holy shit", "Jesus Christ", oMy God look at thisoe. Just sort of off the cuff comments and observations by the medical examiner as theyAEre conducting the autopsy. These guys were all the same, absolutely identical, there's no difference, there is no reproductive capability that we could determine, there's no alimentary tract, no rectum, no teeth. What the hell were we dealing with here? Comments like biological android, clones, they used a whole bunch of different things. It's almost like these guys are made in some lab somewhere. They are all identical!

Update: Were there any notations regarding, any recordings being made, like audio or video recordings of these autopsies?

Bob: There were audio recordings. I am convinced the autopsy was conducted on tape, as today when a medical examiner is conducting an autopsy, there is a tape recording going. What they do is they have a transcription of the tape that they have for evidence if it is a criminal case. Well, this is what they did. There was no video, we had video back then, but it was not a state of the art that was widely used, that was widely used particularly in the military. The British Engineer Battalion that retrieved the object and the bodies did with what they had, they worked with what they had, they brought in medical examiners. I saw photographs of them taking the ship apart.There were photos of them breaking it into wedges, it came apart like a pie. There were roughly about 6 pieces. Then they loaded the pieces on lowboys and hauled them away. I saw photographs, the whole crash, taking the bodies out. There were bodies, there were close ups of the stretchers. There were close ups of the bodies, and they had on some kind of little suits. There were no survivors whatsoever. The observations made during the autopsy, what shocked me the most, there was a fluid in the bodies, but it wasn't like blood. They apparently had lungs and they had a heart, but that was about the only real similarity with a human being. There was no way they ingested or evacuated nourishment, and the question arose, how in the hell did these guys get nourished. In the mouth, I remember there was observation of little membranes, four or five membranes in the mouth, no teeth as all, and as I said no alimentary tract. So there must have been some process to ingest the nutrients and to assimilate it, but there was no way to process waste products, these guys had no rectums, there were no sexual organs.

Update: Were there any problems dissecting the aliens - any noxious gases?

Bob: Not at this time, nothing I remember reading about. This was a rather quick kind of a thing. The autopsies were conducted within hours, I would say, of the crash. There have been cases in our country where the bodies have been laying out in the sun or in the desert, whatever, for a couple-few days, and I think that is probably why we have these reports of gas that have been so noxious that upset people so much. I keep hearing that report about Roswell, I think some of these little bodies have been lying in the sun for awhile. I'll tell you first hand, that a human body smells pretty bad when it is in the process of decay, but there was no remark that I remember reading that indicated the objects, individuals, whatever they were, had an odor of their own. The fluid was interesting. They remarked that it was some kind of yellowish, greenish substance, and one of the medical examiners said that, oIt reminds me of chlorophyll.oe I mean what are we dealing with here. There was a heart, a pump that circulated the fluid and there were apparently a couple of lungs that was just basically were to bring in oxygen of some form.

Now bear in mind this is 1964, and what was finally put into the SHAPE Study, oThe Assessmentoe, the conclusions reached after that were basically stuff that our own military had learned as early as 1949. Now I think, that youAEve done your homework and you know this to be so, that Operation SIGN, Operation GRUDGE, all of the reports and investigations conducted by the Air Force back in 1940's and 1950's, all had basically reached the same conclusion that the SHAPE Study Investigation in 1964, but we didn't know that in Europe at the time because the US was not sharing any of this, they were not forthcoming. The only country the US has been open with and shared with over the years, is Great Britain. In 1947, the United States, England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, signed a pact, this was a famous pact, it is a part of history, the records are very clear.

The English speaking nations of the world signed this pact to share jointly among each other, intelligence. Intelligence that was attained through electronic or through individual or personal means. The nations signed this agreement among themselves, to share. So, the only people which we have shared with is the British, and the same with Australia and Canada as well. That pact that was signed in 1947, I believe is what lead to the ongoing sharing of UFO information over the years. Two years ago, while I was visiting in England, the Admiral Peter Hill Norton, you probably have heard of him.

Lord Peter Hill Norton was the British Chief of Defense for seven years, equivalent to a five--star admiral. His job was the same as the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff. He was the senior number one military man in all of Great Britain. Timothy Goode and I spent some time with the retired Admiral a few years ago. Lord Hill Norton was livid because he had never ever been given any information during his years as Chief of the British Defense Staff on this subject. His staff, some of them, had lied to him and mislead him. The point I'm getting at is that we and the British did share the information, but apparently they didn't let Lord Hill Norton in on it, when he was the chief of the staff. This study, as I told you, was released to all 15 members of the nations, the military nations that were involved in the alignment in 1964. Only 15 copies were ever made. When France withdrew from the military alliance in 1967, General De Gaulle threw us out of France. Now this is another bit of history, IAEve often thought it tied in with this big scandal involving the spy rings, but in 1967, one of my last duties while I was at the headquarters, was to help pack up the headquarters and move it to a new location at Belgium. They built a new multi-million dollar facility outside Brussels and in the summer 1967. I was in the process of helping move the headquarters. We had an enormous amount of material, classified material, tons of documents that had to be moved under controlled situation. oThe Assessmentoe was a part of it. And we were thrown out of France. Now De Gaulle remained a member of NATO but he withdrew from the military alliance and that is why we had to pack up and leave, and when we did so, we required the French to return their copy of oThe Assessmentoe, which they did after about 8 weeks of delay, and many of us in the headquarters knew exactly what they were doing, they were copying the damn thing. Not long after that, France established an organization known as GEPAN, the letters G. E. P. A. N., and I don't even want to try and explain to you what they meant, but it was their own national UFO investigative service. It was a government organization. It was under the Gendarmerie [the French Constabulary]. (Pause)

Update: We were talking about oThe Assessmentoe. Is there any way the general public can access that document?

Bob: Let me explain a little something. Cecilia [Bob's wife] and I went to Europe two years ago to attend an international conference in Dusseldorf. We took a weekend in between and visited SHAPE. We drove over to Brussels, rented a car and went on down to Casteau, which is the little town in Belgium, where SHAPE is now located near by. Because of my background and my ID and my records, I was able to get access to the headquarters. Cecilia and I spent an entire day at SHAPE taking a tour, going and visiting some of the old departments, trying to find out if any of my old cronies were still around, and frankly, sadly enough no. I learned however, from a connection with the Command Sergeant Major, we in the military, I'm a retired Command Sergeant Major, we have what is called an oold boy's network" and we help each other. I learned that oThe Assessmentoe was still in the files, it was still classified COSMIC TOP SECRET and it is still considered to be the most sensitive document NATO has. Now this was two years ago and no I don't believe your Freedom of Information Act means a damn thing because it isn't working here in this country. The Freedom of Information Act is the United States' law allowing United States' citizens to have access to material and that ain't working. Any federal judge in response to a request for NSA or CIA can deny you access, the Freedom of Information Act material. Now you

probably have done your own homework and have learned thatAEs happened. We've gotten releases of documents that were 95% blacked out. Stanton Friedman, whoAEs a friend of mine, loves to hold them up in front of people and says we've got this document through NSA, it's 65 pages, so he holds it up and spreads out and says look we've got 3 pages here that we can read. Well that's my feeling about the Freedom of Information Act, and it doesn't even apply to a NATO document. We have an interesting political structure, there in NATO. You've probably been following it over the years. We have all of these nations involved, I can tell having been there for been there for five years. It is a bit of a nightmare in itself. Documentation procedures, administrating procedures are a hodge podge of 15 nations. Documents are supposed to be primarily published in English with copies in German and French. Those were the three major operative languages in SHAPE NATO. But the Greeks would create a document and write it in Greek, and sometimes it would take months if not years to get the documents translated. This is a tiny aside, that shows you how difficult it is in working with a multi-international headquarters. I made inquiries when I was talking with the admiral over there, whether The Freedom of Information Act would mean anything. We learned that it would not. DoesnAEt apply at all to NATO European documentation. We tried to get access to the document itself through some connections with the admiral Lord Hill Norton. He has a lot of oold boy networkoe connections. He tried repeatedly to get access to some of the material, and they froze him out! This is a five--star admiral. You know of course you are dealing with the most sensitive issue in the history of the human race. It is the most highly classified sensitive issue in the US military security history. ItAEs a multi-national cover-up. We found out the freedom of information act is not applicable at all.

Update: Has it [a hardcopy of the report] ever been leaked?

Bob: There have been other old boys like myself, who have come forward and said, Dean is telling the truth, I was there I saw the damn thing, I read it. We have a retired Air Force three--star who has said that. There are a couple of admirals who have said that. But what is interesting to me, and I wish you put this in your article, I recently heard from friends in Europe that a statement made within the last six months by a retired Soviet Major General KGB, confirmed the existence of oThe Assessmentoe. Oleg Kalugan is a retired two--star KGB general . General Kalugan has made a statement to George Knapp or Michael Heessaman, but Kalugan said they knew that NATO people had this study, they had a study of their own. He said that we both studied the matter, we both learned quite early on that neither one of us were involved in it and that it was a lot more serious then that. Now I'm getting this, my round about way, from a retired KGB general. I'm going to see him this year. They had over six million men in their UFO research program. Only now is it beginning to come out. The Union collapsed. George Knapp was over there on the streets of Moscow buying arms-full of classified documents for American dollars. It kind of pissed me off that it takes a foriegn agency, like the KGB, to confirm the existance of oThe Assessmentoe. That is what is so frustrating about all this crap. It is the same damn thing about what happened up in Groom Lake. We had to get a Soviet intelligence agent to testify that Site 51 exists. And we had to use Soviet satellite photography to prove it. This is a recent court case regarding some injuries of guys who were working there.

This article was published in UFO Update AZAEs Winter 95-96 issue. To subscribe to UFO Update AZ, write to:UFO Update AZ, 12629 N. Tatum, Suite 109, Phoenix AZ 85032 The cost is $8.95 for one year quarterly subscription, enjoy.

An Interview with Retired Sergeant-Major Robert Dean Continued

Update: Bob you have been researching for 40 years now. Why haven't you written a book?

Bob: I have been trying to write a book for at least ten years. I've got a pile of 400 pages of note, bits, and pieces and everything else. The only thing I can tell you is if I could just shut up and stay home I might get it finished. I just got back from a conference in Anaheim [California] where I was invited to speak to the regional MENSA convention. I am leaving Thursday for Kansas City. Then when I get back from there I will be going to Mexico City then to Brazil. That is my problem. I am trying to finish it. I have a title, The Time Has Come. I believe that in my heart that the time has come for a lot of things to happen and the most important is for the American people to be told the truth by their government.

Update: I guess that explains why you have been devoting so much time and effort to this matter.

Bob: You know, I began as a curious skeptic and became an interested researcher. I kept digging into classified files up to the day I retired and they pulled my classified security clearance from me. I use to drive some of my friends up a wall. I'd show up, have coffee, get into their files, ask them questions etc. I have a couple of old cronies that still work at Langley.

I have one old friend who is still hanging on at Ft. Meade, which is NSA headquarters, and the oold boys networkoe still works pretty well. I kept investigating until I retired and then continued investigating without access to classified documents. I had to do other things, sometimes I had to buy material, had to violate the law a few times and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Over the years I have become convinced that this subject is not only the most important subject in the history of the human race, but its implications for the species are mind boggling. I no longer do the traditional investigations that I use to. I don't go to the sites and pour plaster of paris or look for pieces of metal or whatever. I interviewed people, this and that, but now I stopped.

As Alan Hynek has said, we have an over abundance of evidence. We don't need any more. What we need is two things: One, to put it together and make some sense out of what it means; two, to get our government which is suppose to be for, by and of the people to tell us the damn truth, and thatAEs what I am working on now. I am trying to make sense of what it really means. It is not just the hardware. We learned when I left the military group that we were dealing with interplanetary visitations. We also knew that we were dealing with interstellar visitations, we were dealing with intergalactic visitations. Would you be surprised to know that the government does know and is aware that we are having an ongoing involvement with what appears to be multi-dimensional intelligence. Multi- dimensional! Now this blows the physicists out of the water. We are dealing with some intelligenceAEs that are so far beyond us, that we would end saying two things: That they are either gods or itAEs all magic. We have not come to terms with the fact that there could be civilizations out there that could be a million years ahead of us. Could you imagine what their technology would be like. Multi- dimensional travel, apparently, is common place out there. The only people I know of that can really deal with it are quantum physicists and theologians. It is interesting to me that the theologians and physicists are beginning to talk to each other.

Update: So you would see that the ultimate goal of ufology is to put this information into a package that makes sense.

Bob: Yes, Bruce, I believe that people could handle this information. I believe the people are a lot smarter than what the government has ever given them credit for. I am a believer in people. I have two focuses of what is left of my life. I'm an old codger now and I'm getting angry and cantankerous because there is not a whole lot of time left. One is to wake up the American people to this reality and start paying attention and demand some answers, and secondly is to get this whole damn matter back into the congressional process, the constitutional process, where it should have been in the first place and get it out of the hands of the military and get out of the hands of the intelligence agencies. If we don't do that then the Constitution is finished. ThatAEs my primary purpose.

Update: Is there anything that you are currently researching?

Bob: Well, I'm currently researching the scandal of NASA. The oold boys networkoe goes beyond the US military services. I have connections all over the world. Japan, all over Europe, Italy, all over the United Kingdom. NASA was created under a mandate, and a statute, which they have repeatedly violated over the last few years. I refer you to Stan McDaniels of the McDaniel report.

A young Japanese researcher came up to me in San Francisco and he said "I've got some photos to show you, I've never seen these in the US before. But, theyAEre appearing now in Japanese books and according to the books these are NASA photographs.oe He asked if I had ever seen them before and I replied, "Good god no, where did you get that?" He takes me to the library in Japan town in San Francisco and we went through the books and there were NASA numbered and labeled photographs never before released in the US Apollo 12, Apollo 15, Apollo 11 and they have the negative numbers and IAEve got copies here which I will share with you. Now that stuff is not available to the American people.

How the hell the Japanese got it I don't know. I'm now trying to get copies of these documents and the negatives themselves. I had a friend who went to a university here. The University of Arizona is suppose to have a complete catalog access to the old Apollo pictures. Would you believe that the one photograph weAEre looking for is missing, I got this out of Japanese book published in Tokyo. This is NASA photo #AS12 (Apollo 12), negative #50-7346, that was taken on the way to the moon when they saw an object and they didn't know what it was and they photographed it. That happens to be missing from the negative files over at the U.of A. Here is another one. Hoagland [Richard Hoagland] has the same damn problem.

I'm going to have this made into a poster and share it with the American people and tell them it was made with their own tax money. What do you think that object is?

Update: Swamp gas?

Bob: Sure-ha-ha -A self luminating massive object that has lights on it, circular, that was photographed by Apollo 12 near the moon. Another thing that I'm angry about is that there is a fellow by the name of Maurice Chatelain. I refer you to Maurice's work, he is a defense scholar. He was the director of the Apollo communications program for many years. Chatelain was there in Houston and at Kennedy when they were listening to the guys walking on the moon. He heard first hand what Aldrin, Armstrong, Conrad said and it is all there, and he is speaking out now. He was the director of Apollo communications, so he heard first hand what they all saw. For example, "My god NASA, Houston, Houston you have got to see this, this is incredible, they are here, they were waiting for us." Stuff like that.

Update: Has he written a book?

Bob: Yes, here is a copy. The title is Our Cosmic Ancestors.